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Decision '08: Astros Arbitration Offers (or lack thereof)

****UPDATE 2:00PM**** I finally got around to reading the Chronicles piece about our non-offers.  This Ed Wade quote will forever drive me nuts:

While securing additional draft picks is very attractive, we have to balance that with the possibility that the players may have accepted the offer to arbitrate. At this time, the overall player payroll picture carries too much uncertainty to run that risk.

Here's what I don't understand: If Randy Wolf can't be signed by us for a normal deal because his market value is too high for our inflexible payroll, what possible motivation could he have to accept the Astros arbitration?  The man is apparently courting multi-year deals for beaucoup dollar bills, why is he going to accept a one year deal that has the propensity to pay him way under his market value?!?!  If draft picks are too valuable to lose via FA signings, why wouldn't we take this incredible NON-risk on Wolf to get the compensation pick?

Does this make sense to anyone?  I can see the risk Brocail represents if our payroll really is as tight as they're making it out to be...but...I...just...can't...understand Randy Wolf not getting an arbitration offer.

****UPDATE 12:40PM**** I still can't figure out the logic behind not offering arbtration to Wolf or Brocail and I probably never will.  To add to my complete and utter despair about the 2009 Astros:

The Astros will not give up draft picks in order to sign a Type A free agent, so don't look for them to pursue any players of that magnitude who were offered arbitration by their original teams.

If we're so concerned about losing draft picks, why on earth didn't we attempt to gain a few?!

 

Star-divide

 

****UPDATE 10:54AM**** Morning all, The Astros offered no on arbitration. I'm both confused and angered.

Seemingly, the risk of Wolf accepting the offer wouldn't have been terribly costly. Had he accepted, the Astros would have had to commit only one year to the veteran left-hander, and while his salary would have probably reached upwards of $10 million, the club wouldn't have been burdened with a long-term deal.

But in the end, Wade decided the financial risk was too great to take that chance.

"We don't know what landscape is out there with regard to offers from other clubs he might get," Wade said. "We thought long and hard about this one."

 

 

This is inexcusably dumb.  And I'm to groggy for anything else.

****UPDATE 9:36AM****MLBTraderumors reports that the Astros declined to offer Randy Wolf arbitration. Still no source cited..

****UPDATE 1:25AM**** MLBTradeRumors is reporting that Wolf doesn't get offered arb, but has nothing on Brocail -- no source for the Wolf report either.

****UPDATE 1:14AM**** The Astros won't make the announcement until sometime tomorrow (later today).  I however can't believe this from Footer's announcement, though:

As recently as a week ago, it appeared to be a foregone conclusion that the club would offer Wolf arbitration, but now the Astros may have changed their stance. Wolf, a Type B free agent, would net the club a compensation pick between the first and second rounds of next year's Draft should he reject the offer and sign elsewhere. Offering him arbitration would seem to make sense because if he accepted, the Astros would have to commit only one year to the veteran left-hander.

But the addition of Mike Hampton to the starting staff, assuming he passes his physical Tuesday, may affect the Astros' interest in Wolf. At first glance, it would appear Hampton's deal -- a low-base, incentive-laden contract that protects the club against chronic injury issues that have hampered him for several years -- has nothing to do with Wolf, who is four years younger than Hampton and is seemingly past his prior injury issues.

 

Do what? I still don't see how Hampton prevents an arbitration offer to Wolf...at all.

This quote was just frustrating

The club also appeared to be leaning toward not offering arbitration to Brocail, who is a Type A free agent and would bring in two Draft picks should he reject the offer. But Brocail, who had a solid year as the Astros' setup man in 2008, would likely make a bundle in arbitration -- probably more than Brocail's $3.25 million '09 option, which the Astros declined.

Would he really make that much? And isn't the risk of two compensation picks to a talent starved farm system worth it? I thought that was the calculus behind not picking up his option in the first place??

I just need to get back to school.  Thinking about this is just making me woozy.

****UPDATE 12:30 AM**** No word on the arbitration front. I'll be up for awhile and checking for updates obsessively will ensure that.

I figured I'd throw up this thread now and allow speculation about who we offer arbitration too, and eventually react to who we sign.  Also feel free to react to the arbitration decisions of other teams (Sheets got an offer, Adam Dunn did not!!).

 

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9 minutes left

I just want this over with so I can go get a Whataburger tacquito and get to the work I’ve been putting off all night.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 1, 2008 10:52 PM CST   0 recs

11 PM

Has come and gone and I can’t wait around any longer. I’ll check in after delicious tacquitos.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 1, 2008 11:02 PM CST   0 recs

Seriously

LOVE

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 2, 2008 1:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Astros.com is reporting that the Astros have chosen not to make public...

their arbitration decisions until Tuesday. Why? Don’t know.

by clack on Dec 2, 2008 1:14 AM CST   0 recs

maybe...but I don't know why that would make a difference in timing the disclosure.

For all I know the Astros are holding off because they don’t want to wake up Drayton McLane and tell him.

by clack on Dec 2, 2008 1:18 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I truly

Hope that it is for that reason, and that reason only.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 2, 2008 1:22 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

astros.com also reports that Russ Springer is now on the Astros radar...

because the Cardinals didn’t offer him arbitration.

by clack on Dec 2, 2008 1:15 AM CST   0 recs

I smell some jokes about

Ed Wade and middle relievers brewing.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 2, 2008 1:17 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Jesus Christ

just when I thought Ed Wade might not be a complete and utter fucking retard.

I mean, the Randy Wolf arb decision seemed to be so obvious – if you want him, offer him arbitration because he might accept and you have a good chance of getting a reasonable deal. If you don’t want him it makes sense because he probably wouldn’t accept and he very clearly wants to go elsewhere. I understand the Brocail/Loretta situation is murkier, but the Randy Wolf case seemed to be so obviously “offer him arbitration you dumbass, what are you thinking?”

Of course, I’m the one busily writing a 12 page research paper at 2AM, so now who’s the retard? And how sad is it that I have more optimism for the Texans’ future (a great deal more optimism, actually) than for the Astros’ future?

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 2, 2008 2:14 AM CST   0 recs

I don't know that the Wolf reporting is accurate

But I feel your pain on the research paper. I hate myself right now.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 2, 2008 2:49 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Its not Ed Wade's fault

Wade, I’m sure, wanted to offer arb. to Wolf, but Drayton does not want to “risk it”. If Wolf had accepted arb. he would be signed for 2009 for one year, and 10-13 million. Not that big of risk, especially since Wolf would probably decline, and sign a 2-4 year deal.

by byronlhsdrmr on Dec 2, 2008 3:13 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

If it's Drayton

who refused to offer Wolf arbitration, I’d like to make a request for a ticket to Houston so I can go and punch him in the face.

Even if Wolf accepts (unlikely, he’ll be getting a nice multi-year deal even in these times), he’s only going to be around for one year, where he could maybe even build to Type-A status.

And those Texans might be good if they figure out how to stop making stupid mistakes i.e. throw cheap picks and lapse defensively.

by jonthefon on Dec 2, 2008 3:16 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Turns out

that it looks like that mlbtraderumors.com story was based on this one from mlb.com. There they say that the Astros won’t announce until today, so it looks like Wolf (and Brocail) might have been offered arbitration, after all. I suppose we’ll find out in a few hours.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 2, 2008 6:57 AM CST   0 recs

The Wolf situation is pretty much the kind of situation that arbitration was designed for. It was created to compensate a team for losing a “quality” player that they wanted to keep, but someone else offered the player more money. I can’t imagine Ed Wade dropping the ball on this one. And even if he did, I’d assume that one of his assistant GMs would have said something.

Some are speculating that the Hampton deal killed arbitration for Wolf, but would $4 million (maxing out incentives) really break the bank? Does it mean that you can’t take the small risk that Wolf would accept arbitration, even when all the info we’re receiving in fan-land says he’ll go somewhere else?

If it turns out that we didn’t offer arbitration to Wolf, assuming Wade knew what he was doing, it could mean a handful of things. Maybe Wade got some inside info on Wolf’s health, maybe he realized Wolf wants to stay in Houston but is using other teams + arbitration as leverage for a higher contract, or maybe (and I think this is what we all probably believe) Drayton tightened up payroll even more than Wade was expecting, and Wade couldn’t take the risk that he’d have to trade Valverde or Wigginton with everyone in baseball knowing that he’s way overbudget.

by AstroAndy on Dec 2, 2008 9:26 AM CST   0 recs

I misspoke…this is the kind of situation that the Type A/Type B, Free Agent Compensation system was designed for. Not arbitration. Arbitration was designed to get teams and players who disagree on the value of a contract to settle on a number.

by AstroAndy on Dec 2, 2008 9:28 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

It's offical

No one was offered arbi.

by HubertL on Dec 2, 2008 10:07 AM CST   0 recs

aww great

“In order for us to pursue top-shelf free agents, that would entail us moving significant payroll that’s on the club,” Wade said. “There’s no certainty we can do that or even have a great appetite to do that.”

Well, the 2009 season is shaping up to be AWESOME! When can we start placing bets on how soon Drayton breaks out the “champions” talk? My money’s on February.

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 2, 2008 10:46 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Not... Again...

This is the kind of idiocy put on display two years ago when arbitration wasn’t offered for Pettitte and Clemens.

We needed those draft picks then, and we need them now if Wolf moves on to greener pastures.

by pel on Dec 2, 2008 8:27 PM CST   0 recs

This is different

I’m as confused as anybody as to why the hell we wouldn’t offer Wolf, when he’s clearly looking for a long-term deal and is coming off a year where he was playing under market value. Obviously it’s not my money and I don’t know the payroll situation forwards and backwards, but it seemed like a no-brainer… you offer him arbitration and either sign him to a multi-year contract, or lose him and get a 2nd round pick. The likelihood of any other scenario seems very small, and even if he does accept, you have him for 1-year likely at or below market value (based on his previous year’s salary). I don’t get it.

I’ve always argued though, that the situation with Pettitte and Clemens was quite different. Pettitte made $17.5MM in his final year with the Astros and the Astros wanted to cut that by at least $3.5MM (based on their reported offer later) and that most likely would not have happened had he gone to arbitration, and considering they were expecting him to sign a 1-year contract, the chances of him accepting were pretty good (assuming he was ever genuine about wanting to play for the Astros again, which as the organization, you’d have to assume he was… no using 20/20 hindsight on this one). They could have taken a bath had Pettitte accepted arbitration, and had he declined, they wouldn’t have been able to negotiate with him until the Spring (which they obviously wanted to do). Clemens was slightly different than Pettitte, but still a risk. Had he accepted arbitration (which he said he wouldn’t), he would have been a signed player, and potentially (albeit unlikely) the Astros would have been on the hook for his full year salary whether he decided to play again or not (remember, he was signing pro-rated contracts for his two half seasons). Also, offering Clemens arbitration knowing that he’d reject it (like he said he would) could have been seen as a gesture of poor faith (the cynical in the crowd don’t give a shit, but if you’re trying to lure a primadonna like Clemens, you need to do as much good faith negotiating as you can).

Anyway, I still don’t think offering Pettitte or Clemens arbitration was ever a serious option, but feel free to argue the other side. This case, on the other hand, I’m all aboard the confused as fuck train.

by littlevisigoth on Dec 5, 2008 4:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

sorry if i'm too late to this discussion

but it’s been a while since i’ve checked in and i’m just reading through all these posts.

by littlevisigoth on Dec 5, 2008 4:33 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Sometimes I wonder if McLane would rather NOT have the draft picks...

so that he can avoid having to pay those bonuses for high picks.

by clack on Dec 2, 2008 8:41 PM CST   0 recs

When the GM does something I don’t like, I always try to find some kind of silver lining. I guess this time, it’s that by having fewer draft picks, we’ll have more money to sign each one.

by AstroAndy on Dec 2, 2008 8:45 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

That is a silver lining

But the cloud of gray is: The cost of signing those extra draft picks is 40 games of Carlos Lee.

Net Present Value Drayton…NET PRESENT VALUE

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Dec 2, 2008 9:38 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

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