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BWAA Doesn't Screw Up - Pujols crowned the NL MVP

Lance finished a distant fifth...behind Manny some how? And only a scant five points in front of CC Sabathia.

Brad Lidge also managed two first place votes...ridiculous.

Valverde got one ninth place votes.

Link about 1 month ago Lovelance_tiny DyingQuail Comment 21 comments 0 recs |

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That Lance finished so far behind is complete bullshit.

The writers don’t know what the hell they’re doing. The three ROY votes for Volquez made that clear. I’m surprised they didn’t all vote for Ryan Howard.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 17, 2008 2:51 PM CST   0 recs

It's just absurd

If didn’t have work to do, I’d try and initiate the public shaming.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Nov 17, 2008 3:03 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

here is David Pinto

A question arose as to my earlier post, as to why I left Berkman off the ballot when I thought he played better than Ryan Howard. The answer was simply that Berkman was just another first baseman having a great year. Down ballot, I like to recognize accomplishments. So Howard leading the majors in home runs goes down there, as does Manny’s two incredible months with the Dodgers, and Tim Lincecum’s Cy Young season. I think there can be some subjectivity to the MVP ballot, especially down ballot.

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 10:26 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's just stupid. Really fucking stupid.

Berkman was tied for 1st in doubles this season. Had the 5th highest BA, 3rd highest OPS+, had the 4th most runs scored (displaying remarkable speed and intelligence), and the 4th most BB. What’s most important: he was 2nd in the National League in runs created. He was the 2nd best hitter in the league this season and way more than just another 1B having a great year.

And if Pinto wants to recognize accomplishments, how about this (from Ken Davidoff’s otherwise idiotic – 2nd for Manny, 3rd for Sabathia – ballot):

HIs best attribute was that, in close and late situations (defined by baseball-reference.com as “plate appearances in the seventh or later with the batting team tied, ahead by one, or the tying run at least on deck”), he OPSed an astounding 1.270.

The guy was a fantastic hitter with astounding “clutch” performances this year.

I understand that, down the ballot, you can vote for guys for other reasons. But Berkman should have gotten his 2nd or 3rd place vote, at least. He was that good.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 10:44 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I thought the down ballot thing was stupid myself

but if you strip away the language, he said that Berkman had a “great” year.

It seems like defense doesn’t get talked about much in the discussion, but didn’t Lance have a great year defensively?

Great plus great gets no vote…

He’s a sabr guy and there is all sorts of fawning over his PMR. So why no outrage over his actions?

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 11:05 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Ryan Braun and his .888 OPS also came out ahead of Lance?

OK, I don’t get it. Ryan Howard and Manny, I can understand…or at least expect they would gather more votes than they should. Howard led the NL in HRs and RBIs, and we know the voters love those two stats. Manny is a big name guy who had a incredible late season run. Braun is a good hitter, no doubt, but MVP….after he slipped off his rookie year performance?

by clack on Nov 17, 2008 4:10 PM CST   0 recs

This Milwaukee writer is taking some jeers at BBTF....

Tom Hardicourt left Berkman off his MVP ballot and voted Albert Pujols 7th. He voted Howard first and Sabbathia second. In fact, he voted three Brewers in his top 10.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/34594194.html

Maybe Ol’ Pete will come around and help explain this to us. :)

by clack on Nov 17, 2008 6:25 PM CST   0 recs

I liked this comment at BBTF:

“Seriously, this is like giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs.”

Actually, this is worse than giving the Pulitzer Prize to Jugs – at least a piece in Jugs would probably be consistent with the stated aim of the magazine.

I could fill out an MVP ballot in a dream and have it make more sense. Sure, the ballot would contain maybe my old neighbor, Chester A. Arthur, a milk truck, and Jeff Reboulet, but it’d still be better than an MVP ballot that lists Carlos Delgado above Albert Pujols.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 17, 2008 6:30 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

tall order there

He can be contrarian, that’s for sure. I think he’s a good writer and when he does his miscellaneous radio spots he’s quick witted and funny. He’s also quite unlike the typical compromised beat reporter. Not toward the end, but in the heart of the season he and Yost would go at it pretty hard. I loved it when the postgame would have audio clips and you’d hear those guys elevating their voices and borderline yelling. Yost never wanted to be questioned and he did it regardless. I can’t recall a single question that wasn’t legitimate either.

His reputation goes way back. Wendy Selig-Prieb nicknamed him the Prince of Darkness for his questions.

His vote for MVP? Since there is no definition to work from and he provides his thinking, I’d put him a notch above a lot of people. Most of the critics want raw stat lines to be the absolute determining factor. If they define “most valuable” that way, fine.

Nobody talks about what an obnoxious jerk Pujols can be. He often seems to think that he should get preferential treatment for no good reason. I remember a pitchfx breakdown of the year before last and the guy had an awful lot of strikes down the middle called balls. Maybe he thinks its all owed to him somehow. He was also in the middle of plays that could be called dirty like the one where he slid off the base path and injured a player. Was it dirty? I don’t know.

I didn’t see enough of his late year performance to draw a conclusion but he did have a number of late season opportunities against the Brewers where he failed and substituted it with histrionics and physical posturing. I don’t care enough to check Ludwick’s late season hitting, but Haudricourt offered that contrast.

I think its kind of a stupid award anyway. For all I care, Braun can get votes because he’s under contract. I don’t want Prince to get a vote because he’s in arbitration and it’ll drive up his cost. Pujols can have it because it just makes him that much more expensive.

Besides, Pujols says that he got the award because of the decision of an unnamed deity. Since the deity is all powerful, Haudricourt was somehow just doing what he was told.

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 9:25 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Since a month or so ago I picked Ryan Braun

and later said I could understand why Brad Lidge should be seriously considered, I guess I better toss in my two cents worth in defense of their relatively strong finishes.

Braun came in third – a mighty distant third but third. Brewers made the playoffs and it seemed to me every time the Brewers beat the Astros or Cardnials or Cubs, Braun played a critical part, often more than once a game and way too often had the back- breaker hit in the game. He’s a jerk, I’m glad he doesn’t play for the Astros, but in my opinion he is the reason the Brewers made the playoffs.

Brad Lidge did not blow a save all year. That reliability at closer role builds confidence and inspires other pitchers and position players alike.

Berkman slumped for way too long I forget when July-August maybe. He is not the media darling that Albert Pujols is. He will not win MVP unless the Astros at least make it to the playoffs, and maybe win the Central.

Pujols may have won it because the media (Hello ESPN ) crammed Pujols as MVP down our throats on a daily basis.

Ryan Howard – Great contribution to the Phillies the last two months of the season (or thereabouts) but a nonfactor early. I guess Eastern writers like Phillies players until they can justify a Mets vote.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 17, 2008 7:21 PM CST   0 recs

My comment about Braun had nothing to do with his personality.

I just don’t think he falls in the elite hitter category this year. (He may well be an elite hitter in the future, though.) Ten other NL hitters had a better OPS than Braun. And some of them played more difficult positions than Braun. According to Fangraphs, Braun had a negative clutch number, meaning that his WPA declined in leveraged in situations. That may or may not mean anything. But based on WPA and the clutch contribution, Berkman was better…well, the best if you want to rely on just WPA.

by clack on Nov 17, 2008 8:11 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

Berkman probably didn't deserve it, but Pujols clearly did.

For all the reasons clack stated, Braun came up short, and Howard wasn’t even the best guy on his team.

As for the Brad Lidge controversy, his nomination violates the rules of the voting:

1. Actual value of a player to his team, that is, strength of offense and defense.

2. Number of games played.

3. General character, disposition, loyalty and effort.

4. Former winners are eligible.

5. Members of the committee may vote for more than one member of a team.

Rule number two pretty much rules out Lidge. So does rule number one. He never pitched more than an inning and he only pitched 69.1 innings in 72 appearances — so couldn’t really even have provided his team that much value. If Howard wasn’t the most valuable player on his own team, Lidge definitely wasn’t either.

The BWAA is a joke.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by DyingQuail on Nov 17, 2008 9:25 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

On the contrary

I think one could make a very good case for Berkman. The way I see it, one could only justifiably vote for three guys as MVP:

1) Pujols – the obvious, safe choice.
2) Berkman – he comes out as the best player if you weight for “clutch” performance. No, I don’t believe that Lance had any control over that, but I suppose that if clutch hitting really exists, it would be something you’d want in an MVP. Berkman is a worthy choice.
3) Utley – if you really have to vote for a playoff team (and that’s a reasonable position to take), then Utley is the best choice.

I think all three of those players are equally good choices, and it’s a shame that both Utley and Berkman finished so far behind.

As for Lidge, the best pitcher in a league gets its Cy Young. Pitchers (particularly relievers) play too infrequently to win the MVP award.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 17, 2008 11:49 PM CST to parent up   0 recs

They can get the DHL Delivery Man of the Year Award!

Or whatever it’s called.

As for Berkman.. didn’t even the SBNation bloggers vote him second behind Pujols?

by entropic soul on Nov 18, 2008 9:08 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

an argument could be made

that rule number two qualifies him. He played in all the close important games. He pitched the highest pressure innings.

Not much value? Dude.

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 9:31 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Haudricourt

responds

I took a tour through vivaelbirdos and its laced with personal attacks and wild, irrational rants. They really seem like their season was a big success because Albert got the MVP.

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 9:52 AM CST   0 recs

I think it's pretty funny

that people keep bringing up Pujols’ statements back in 2006. It’s not like he determines the rules for winning the MVP. If he was the most valuable player, then he deserves the MVP. And, what’s more, if you buy his line about players who don’t make it to the playoffs not deserving the MVP, why vote for him at all?

What strikes me as really odd about Haudricourt’s ballot (beyond the sheer number of Brewers on it), is that he put Delgado at #4. The Mets didn’t make the postseason, so why vote Delgado so high?

Well, I suspect Haudricourt would say, it’s not Delgado’s fault that the Mets’ bullpen sucked. Delgado made significant contributions (though Wright and Beltran contributed a hell of a lot more) to his team’s playoff hopes. But the same would be true of Pujols and the Cardinals or Berkman and the Stros. Just by looking at Haudricourt’s ballot, it seems like he just threw darts at a board after putting Howard at #1. It doesn’t seem like his voting was governed by any logic or reason, just a sense for cliche and intense homerism.

In the end, I think this really shows the problems inherent in baseball’s award structure. The writers are (despite a few gems like Joe Posnanski) a bunch of idiots. And, while I don’t think that they are any smarter or less susceptible to bullshit, I’d prefer it if the players and managers voted. That seems to make some sense.

As for the Cards fans getting all hyped up about this: I can understand it. It would be really cool to see Berkman win the MVP, just like it was cool to see Clemens win the Cy Young (I’m a little too remember Bagwell’s MVP, though I suppose I was in Kindergarten at the time). The Cardinals probably have the best player in baseball right now (and if he keeps going at this pace, maybe the greatest of all time), and it’s legitimate to want his greatness to be recognized by all of baseball.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 10:15 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

so who gets to vote?

The writers are idiots. The managers and coaches are incompetent and can’t even recognize good defense. The fans would obviously be out.

So?

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 10:24 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

That's why I said the players should vote

I’m not saying that they are any smarter than the writers, but if you’re going to have idiots pick awards, then you might as well have the people who play the game do it.

Or we could just have Bill James do it.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 10:30 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

I remember complaining

when the players picked JJ Hardy to be in the all-star game. The “wisdom” at the time was that he was an average defensive infielder lacking in range who had a hot streak but had holes in his swing.

by ol Pete on Nov 18, 2008 11:07 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

Obviously,

you’ll have idiotic choices. But, on balance, I think it would be a system that makes more sense and has fewer dumbass choices (I doubt, for instance, that any of the Yankees pitchers would ever have voted for Jeter’s gold gloves).

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 18, 2008 11:34 AM CST to parent up   0 recs

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