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Ken Davidoff of Newsday on the Lidge trade

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I dug into a story I wrote from last year's general meetings concerning the trade of Brad Lidge to the Phillies. You want to talk about luck playing a factor in a baseball season? Take this: The Phillies had a unique advantage in the Lidge sweepstakes, because the Astros' new GM, Ed Wade, ran the Phillies from 1998 through 2005. He knew outfielder Michael Bourn, and he valued him much more than anyone else did. Bourn OPSed a horrendous .588 for the Astros this past year.

 

The Mets were interested in Lidge at the time, as a setup man for Lidge's Astros buddy Billy Wagner, but Wade wanted a package headed by either Carlos Gomez or Fernando Martinez. The Mets couldn't do that, because they very likely knew at that point that Gomez would be needed to acquire Johan Santana, and they weren't going to give up Martinez for someone they perceived as a setup man; they wouldn't even trade Martinez for Santana. Even Gomez, somewhat of a disappointment for the Twins, OPSed .656.

So the Phillies received a circumstantial discount, influenced by something entirely out of their control: Astros owner Drayton McLane's decision to hire Wade.

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I'd like to hear

what the Astros scouting department thought of Bourn and how much input they had in the decision.

There is a reason they get paid to scout.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Oct 31, 2008 7:44 PM CDT reply actions  

yeah

good luck getting it with this group of reporters we have though.

by lnewcomer on Oct 31, 2008 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

Astros were after Bourn before Wade became GM.

This July 2007 article in the Chronicle says that Pupura was discussing a trade for Bourn at the deadline. The article also notes that the Astros had drafted Bourn out of high school (he went on to UH.)
http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4394018

A June 30, 2007 article by Ortiz in the Chronicle suggests a Lidge for Bourn trade:

Lidge is the Astros’ one true chip to bring back some quality prospects to bolster a desolate farm system in terms of position players. If Lidge went on the market, at least 20 teams would chase for his services. The Red Sox had the nerve to insult the Astros by offering Julian Tavarez for Lidge, but the price would be much greater now. And the Astros would get their price.

Why not trade Lidge to the Philadelphia Phillies for catcher Carlos Ruiz and center fielder Michael Bourn, a Humble native and former University of Houston star? Both of those players are earning the major league minimum of $380,000. Combined, they’d still make $4.2 million less than Lidge while also providing depth and hope for two badly needed positions.

The speedy Bourn, a lefthanded hitter, could easily move to center field and the leadoff spot, pushing Pence to right field while immediately adding a boost to the defense. Ruiz, 28, who has impressed some of the Astros’ top scouts, could also be the Astros’ catcher of the future and give Lee a fellow Panamanian to talk about the motherland.

For the Astros, it would be a steep price to pay for unloading a talent like Lidge. The Phillies also would view that as a steep price, but Phillies general manager Pat Gillick has a solid relationship with the Astros’ top decision-makers, Tal Smith and Tim Purpura. They trust each other and would know they were trying to work out a fair deal for the success of both franchises.

http://www.chron.com/CDA/archives/archive.mpl?id=2007_4358495

Ortiz had previously criticized the Astros for failing to sign local talent and named Bourn. I wouldn’t be surprised if McLane saw some PR advantage in acquiring a former UH star.

by clack on Oct 31, 2008 10:04 PM CDT reply actions  

"a Humble native"

AN Humble native, dammit. The Chronicle should get that right.

I’m really surprised that Wade wasn’t more aggressive with his options. True, Lidge had an off-season in 2006, but he was doing significantly better in 2007. I find it hard to believe that Wade didn’t use that fact to his advantage in trade negotiations.

But Bourn was clearly overvalued by virtually everyone. That’s not really surprising. Wade made a bad decision, but I hesitate to call it a stupid decision, given the circumstances.

by Only_A_Lad on Nov 1, 2008 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

one of lopez's idiotic hobbyhorses

is hometown guys (did you know he grew up a fan of the LA Dodgers???). He mentions James Loney and Carl Crawford in practically every other blog post. Out of that trio, it looks like we got the most useless out of three in Bourn.

Other than Wesley Wright, is there one of Wade’s moves in the offseason last year that could be called good?

by lnewcomer on Nov 1, 2008 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think people fall in love with speed

which makes less sense in baseball than other sports, it seems to me.

by lnewcomer on Nov 1, 2008 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions  

The in-season trades seemed better.

“Other than Wesley Wright, is there one of Wade’s moves in the offseason last year that could be called good?”

I would call the Erstad and Brocail signings decent ones; certainly the Erstad signing turned out better than the flak that Wade took would have suggested. I think the jury is still out on the Matsui signing. The Valverde trade was a good one, even though arguably you wouldn’t have to make the trade if Lidge had stayed put. But if you assume that Lidge had to be traded under any condition, then Wade did a good job getting a replacement.

The Lidge and Tejada trades were bigger deals, though, and don’t look that great right now. The Tejada trade might look a little better if he rebounds with typical Tejada offensive stats next year…but that does seem more optimistic than realistic at his age. I wrote a previous article suggesting that the Astros would have been better off trading for Lastings Milledge. The Mets had gotten down on Milledge, and Gomez and Martinez had replaced him as the Mets’ successor in CF. Milledge was traded to the Nationals and didn’t have a great season (given his one time reputation for superstar potential), but he was decent enough on offense that it probably would have outweighed Bourn’s defensive advantage.

However, Wade’s in-season trades for Wolf and Hawkins were obvious successes, even though he was widely pilloried at the time for those moves.

by clack on Nov 1, 2008 1:24 PM CDT reply actions  

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