Lieber, Linebrink?

by littlevisigoth on Nov 6, 2007 6:09 PM CST Comment 10 comments

Wade appears to be leaving no stone unturned. I've said before I like the idea of gunning for Linebrink. I'm not so sure about Lieber. He's only had one fully healthy season out of the last five. I wonder what kind of contract he'll be demanding. Something one-year and incentive-laden seems appropriate, being old and coming off of a surgery.

I do like that Wade seems to be beating the streets like he said he would. Although maybe that's his strategy, to prove to everybody that he's working hard. I'll choose to wait and judge him by the decisions that he actually makes.

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No and what for

No way would I go after Linebrink. He will cost too much and the Astros have other needs to fill. The bullpen is the last area a team needs to go after to create a winner.
You can probably get Lieber on the cheap with incentives but why? The Astros have plenty of guys that need a chance to start instead of getting a 38 year old re-tread that might be good. I am still thinking this is more re-building than trying to fill out a roster for a playoff run. See what the young guys can do.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 7, 2007 3:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

What does Linebrink stand to make?

He only made $1.75 mil last year (Cot's says incentives could have put that to $2.25 mil... not sure what he actually made). He's not going to get closer money (if he does, I wouldn't be interested), so what are we talking? 4-5 million per? You really don't think he'd be worth it? You know free agent signings don't just have to be about this year.

by littlevisigoth on Nov 7, 2007 4:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Why pay 4-5 mil

For a reliever - non-closer - who was just good but not great the last couple years? Chad Qualls numbers have been at least as good if not better than Linebrink the last 2 years.
The bullpen can wait till the Astros can fill in some other holes. Why spend that money when the bullpen won't have a lead to protect most of the time?

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 8, 2007 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

If the Astros management

goes into the season with the assumption that there won't be many leads to protect, they should be fired. I don't think that kind of defeatist attitude has a place in their decision making.

by clack on Nov 8, 2007 11:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just going by last year

And the Astros were one of the worst teams in baseball. Having made no significant changes I can't see why they expect to be that much better. Meaning having Linebrink still does not help that much. For the money they can spend on him they can help out at other positions. I am not saying they should not try to win and I don't think they have that thought process. They just don't start with winning on the 6th inning or later.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 9, 2007 9:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Linebrink wouldn't be playing for last year's team

he'd be playing for next year's team, and presumably one or more after that. If management isn't intending for those teams to be better than the one we suffered through this past year... well, like Clack said, they shouldn't be management.

by littlevisigoth on Nov 9, 2007 2:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You still don't build a team through the bullpen

You have something to start with. The bullpen should be the last piece to a winning team. Let's get some starters and some offense and then worry about the bullpen.
Getting back to winning by getting a good bullpen is like a 4-12 football team spending a bunch on a kicker. Sure he'll help a little but he won't win enough games for you to make that much difference.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 9, 2007 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree...

Given the cost of starting pitching, a bullpen is a cost effective way of putting a team back in contention. That has been a premise pushed by Towers in San Diego; he has said that he doesn't understand why more teams don't start by fortifying their bullpen, because it is the cheapest place to save runs. (And it is interesting that Wade has been an assistant to Towers over the last two years.) The 05 Padres' rotation was so weak that they briefly relied on Tim Redding and later Chan Ho Park...but the bullpen was strong enough that the team won the NL West that year.

by clack on Nov 9, 2007 7:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What has it gotten them?

The Padres have had a below 500 record as often as not over the last 10 years - when Towers has been the GM. And they managed to win the NL West in 05 with an historic 82 wins. Are we aiming for 82 wins? I like the idea of having a solid bullpen but I don't want to spend now just to spend. Save the money till the bullpen can actuallu help us win.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 10, 2007 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I favor bolstering the bullpen....

Let's face it, the choices for improving the starting pitching aren't very attractive. If you can't add a good starting pitcher, the alternative is to spend the money on the bullpen. Lowering the team ERA with good relievers counts the same as adding starters. I would target Linebrink, Dotel, Gagne, and perhaps even Cordero. If you can afford it, add two premium relievers from that group and try to make the bullpen bulletproof. I disagree with the notion that the bullpen isn't a priority. If your rotation is weak, then the bullpen is the most cost effective place to cut down on allowed runs. Given their current state, most of the guys in the rotations won't be going deep into games; so why not really shorten the game.

As for Lieber, I'm lukewarm to that idea. Maybe if he is on a 1 year incentive based contract, he is worth a look. But, coming off an injury, I'm not sure that Lieber will be any better than Woody Williams.

by clack on Nov 7, 2007 8:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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