Bonds Indicted

by TimStros on Nov 15, 2007 5:31 PM CST Comment 13 comments

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071115&content_id=2301117&vkey=news_mlb&fext=. jsp&c_id=mlb

hahahahahahaha

it's about time.

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But only for lying....

The indictment is just for perjury and obstruction of justice, and not on a drug-related charge.

Kind of like a few years back when Martha Stewart was in the middle of that insider-trading investigation...she wasn't actually doing any insider trading, but she got spooked and lied to the investigators. And that's what she got punished for.

Though I do expect Bonds will get harsher treatment, punishment-wise.

by AstroAndy on Nov 15, 2007 5:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Although...

Wouldn't the court need to prove that he took 'roids in order to prove that he lied about not taking them?

This could be quite interesting, I for one think it'll be nice to get all of this secrecy overwith and get some facts out into the light of day.

by alamosweet on Nov 15, 2007 6:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

the indictment states that....

the government has positive steroid tests from Barry Bonds; in fact, the alleged perjury takes place when Bonds was asked about the positive drug tests and he said he didn't know anything about them. I suspect that Bonds' defense will develop around whether he "knowingly" took steroids. He testified that he did not knowingly take steroids. Could it be that his supplier, Anderson, decided to talk (he is rotting in jail for refusing to answer questions about Bonds), and that is the reason that the feds made the indictment?

by clack on Nov 15, 2007 7:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Coincidentally

Anderson was released from jail the same day Bonds indicted.

Keeping Warm During Hot Stove Season

by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 15, 2007 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

n/t

Basically, the indictment means that a grand jury thinks that there's enough evidence to go ahead and formally accuse Bonds of perjury and obstruction. It's the very beginning of the process...they've still got a little ways to go before they prove he "knowingly" did anything. The grand jury indictment is a little bit lower of a hurdle than what they will have to jump when it goes to the actual trial. I'm curious as to what new evidence they might have.

If you're curious, you can read the actual indictment papers here: U.S. v. Barry Lamar Bonds

by AstroAndy on Nov 15, 2007 7:34 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for that link, cool primary source

There is a line in there, No. 9 in that list, that says "evidence was obtained including positive tests for the presence of anabolic steroids and other performance-enhancing substances for Bonds and other professional athletes."

Maybe I haven't paid close enough attention, but it says right there that Bonds tested positive for anabolic steroids. I can't think of a more condemning statement about, basically, the whole ordeal, indictment aside.

He took anabolic steroids, not just the then-allowed HGH. To me, that's the end of the story, no more mystery about whether he did it or not.

Am I wrong on this?

by alamosweet on Nov 16, 2007 8:50 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

He Admitted He Took Steroids

He just states that he did not do it 'knowingly' in his testimony and that is the part that he is being indicted for. He had complete immununity but still chose to lie about according to the grand jury.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Nov 16, 2007 1:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my POV

From a legal standpoint, I'd be willing to bet there are some questions about the strength of that evidence. They've had it for years...if it were a "smoking gun", this indictment probably would have come a lot sooner. There's probably some evidence not in the indictment that pushed the grand jury over the edge. Some people think that maybe his trainer finally cracked. Who knows. It's a lawyer's fight now. Barry's got a long, expensive, mentally and emotionally draining experience ahead of him.

From a public opinion perspective...Bonds lost that battle a long time ago. I don't think there's anyone here who thinks he's gone his whole career as clean as a whistle. For me, it was when his neck swelled up to the size of a tree trunk and he went out and knocked out 73 homers in a season. And I think it's a damn shame, too. He would have been one of the all-time greats, even without performance enhancers. He has one of the most graceful, effortless swings...somewhere on YouTube, you can see a slow-mo of his swing from that Bonds on Bonds series, I think. It's pretty awesome.

And I personally hate to make him out to be The Great Evil, you know. I know he's not the only one out there who cheated in this way. And as a baseball fan, I've had a lot of heroes (Bagwell, Jose Cruz, Jim Abbott...). I can't imagine how upset I would feel if one of them was outed. I was so upset when the ballplayers went on strike in '94 that I don't think I watched baseball again until '97...I stopped collecting cards, started reading comic books (I was 12, give me a break).

So anyway, I know a lot of people feel vindicated by the indictment, but I just feel kind of sad that baseball has to grow up and stop ignoring this very serious problem.

by AstroAndy on Nov 16, 2007 11:55 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

yup

Bonds was one of the all time greats but his attitude is what sets him aside and makes it so easy to make him a villan. When you look at others like McGwire and Palmeiro who most people believe took steroids just as most believe Bonds did, they aren't made to be the worst of the worst because they atleast appeared to be decent human beings. Bonds on the other side has never appeared to be that way. AND IT'S NOT ABOUT RACE! It's about attitude! Well that and the fact that Bonds now holds the most sacred record in baseball. Do I think that McGwire should go into the hall of fame? Not a chance, same for Palmeiro and same for Bonds. I also agree that if Bagwell or Biggio or some of my other childhood heroes were found to have taken steroids I would be crushed.

by TimStros on Nov 16, 2007 12:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There's...

...this really great article written in 1993 by Richard Hoffer called "The Importance of Being Barry". I first read it in a collection of Great Baseball Writing put together by Sports Illustrated (it's a great book, I highly recommend it...it always helps to take some of the chill out of the offseason).

It's a great article and it does a good job of looking at why Barry Bonds acts like he does, trying to get at everything from his perspective. I'm not saying it's OK for a person to be an asshole. But I can see how it might make a man surly and standoffish if he were an extreme introvert, a very private person, and had a gift that made everyone want a piece of him. Not saying the article would change anyone's mind about what he's done. But it did start to make me look at him as a more complex human being than what I read in the newspapers.

by AstroAndy on Nov 16, 2007 1:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Witch-Hunt

when I saw Barry's picture on ESPN's front page, that's the first word that came to mind.

Giants' fans have been using the word for years to characterize Bonds' villainization, and it kind of clicked for me right there, the concept they were trying to communicate; they really ARE after Bonds to the exclusion of everyone else.

I mean, Guillermo Mota wasn't served, was he?

Now, you might say that Guillermo Mota didn't lie to a fucking Grand Jury, but then again, he wasn't called to one, either.

I was reading that the timing of the indictment had more to do with the fact that Alberto Gonzales had to step down than anything else, and the new guy Mikasy, Milcasy, something like that gets to put a feather in his cap.

It doesn't look like justice, it looks like a vendetta.

But now that I'm thinking about it, what it DOESN'T look like is a witch-hunt. The thing about witches, is they don't exist. When McCarthy got 'em all riled up about Reds, they called that a witch-hunt, too, coz turns out there weren't (m)any commies, either.

But with Bonds, there IS something to find: the man is guilty of taking steroids. While it doesn't look like the Feds are handling it very honorably, neither has Barry Bonds, and I don't think I knew his middle name was Lamar.

So while I might allow that Bonds is the victim of some unfair or at least unequal treatment, I also think those who go through life trying to whip up a sympathy case for the guy are probably best looking elsewhere for their martyr.

Cortisone shots: Not just for overpaid athletes anymore.

by rastronomicals on Nov 16, 2007 6:40 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I was actually thinking

that I never knew Barry's middle name was Lamar, so it's kind of funny that you said it. I just assumed it was "Willie Mays" or something like that

by TimStros on Nov 16, 2007 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

steroids has little to do with his charges

Actually, nothing. He is not being charged as a dealer, user, anything. He is being charged with lying and obstructing justice. Which he is clearly guilty on all counts. I knew years ago he was going to jail. I always thought it would be for tax evasion. Another one of his crimes.

As I stated here.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com/comments/2006/5/17/24538/5405/28#28

Make the world a better place. Punch Tim Purpura in the face.

by Shamus on Nov 16, 2007 8:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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