Mark Loretta: 1 yr, $2.5 mil

Really? Do we really need another third baseman/second baseman/shortstop? Isn't this what Burke, Lamb, and Bruntlett are for???

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Assuming

the deal goes down (the official site reports that an unspecified team spokesman says that "contractual issues" must still be worked out), this will be Loretta's second tour with the Astros.

You may recall that we got him at the trade deadline, 2002 for what ended up being Keith Ginter and Wayne Franklin>

He was pretty good in the playoff push under 1M that failed:

YR  G  AB  R  H  2B   HR  RBI   BA    OBP   SLG   K   BB  

'02 21 66 10 28   4   2     8  .424  .481  .576    5   9

but I seem to remember we made no attempt at all to re-sign him.

How does he fit in now?

I have no clue.

by rastronomicals on Jan 4, 2007 4:10 PM CST 0 recs

3rd base? :) I assume this is really going to put a fire in Ensberg. But I think this is a great pick up. Didn't Loretta make the All-Star team last year? I think this goes along w/ the idea of getting the great talent and pushing him in there wherever they can whenever they can.

by TimStros on Jan 4, 2007 4:21 PM CST 0 recs

I like it

I mean why not? The only thing I can't understand is why Loretta would sign with us (especially if, as rumored, Texas offered him $1M more).

.285 batting average looks mighty fine to me in comp. to Biggio (.246), Ensberg (.235), and Everett (.239)

I always like the intuitive appeal of the "we're gonna sign someone to light a fire under one of our cheaper, potentially promising younger players" like with Huff for Ensberg, or even the Burke at SS idea in spring training last year. But when has that ever worked to actually make the cheap, young player a better hitter? In any case, 2.5M for a 2006 and 2004 all-star is fine with me.

by Kian on Jan 4, 2007 5:12 PM CST 0 recs

Also

If Biggio retires after 2007, and Loretta pans out okay, he could take over at 2B in 2008 if we can re-sign him. This would give us one more year to find a centerfielder assuming Burke pans out there before moving to 2B in 2009.

by Kian on Jan 4, 2007 5:26 PM CST up 0 recs

I think

postponing Burke to take over at 2b is just going to increase the chances of him moving on to another team. Not exactly sure when he'll become a free agent, but I doubt he'll be staying with the Astros if he doesn't have 2b to himself come that time.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 4, 2007 7:03 PM CST up 0 recs

I love this deal

I have actually been midly sad that we lost him since his first tour here(of course that had a lot to do with the 424 BA[which I know is in limited at bats]). I was hoping to get home in time to post this first, but I see I was beat. Anyways. Mark Loretta is an offensive upgrade at 2nd and SS if he were to play there and depending on how Ensberg comes back this year, could play there as well. Loretta hasn't played a lot of SS, but I wouldn't mind him taking some time away from Adam there as well. I'm actually surprised the Red Sox didn't sign him again for the 2.5 mil it is reported that the Astros are signing him for. I think this is a great deal.

I have actually been pulling for the Astros to at least look into Loretta, but I didn't think he would come this cheap or really had a role to fill on the team.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 4, 2007 5:14 PM CST 0 recs

I am fine with that

I would assume the Astros will have a 12 man pitching staff again. So that gives you 13 Pos players to bring out of camp.

C Ausmus
C Quintero/Munson
1B Lance
2B Biggio
3B Ensberg
SS Everett
OF Lee
OF Burke
OF Scott
B Lamb
B Loretta
B ?
B ?

As the team stands now these are the 11 guys that will make the team IMO. Now looking at these players and trying to fill out a complete club with only two spots left the options are limited.

Name/POS/THROWS/BATS

Bruntlett/Util/R/R
Palmeiro/OF/L/L
Lane/OF/L/R
Pence/OF/R/R
Conrad/IF/R/S

The more I look at this team, they are limited on defense. I also see several players playing several positions. The one guy I think must make the team because of the regulars abilities/inabilities is Eric Bruntlett. He is a super-utility with great defense at 6 positions. The last spot should be filled out by an OFer. Either Lane or Palmeiro could work, but will not have any real impact.

Any thoughts about who you think will make it?

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 4, 2007 7:48 PM CST 0 recs

I see them

taking Bruntlett and Palmeiro at the beginning of the year. Then when Biggio reaches 3,000, there'll be a shift in position players, especially if Morgan is flopping again.

by saylinara on Jan 4, 2007 8:12 PM CST up 0 recs

I was short on time

So I didn't explain very well.

Palmeiro is useless now that Loretta is on the team to be the PH when not spot-starting. Palmeiro had a wopping 3 AB's vs LHP last year and Loretta hits RHP very well(much better than Palmeiro). Palmeiro is also a bad OFer. So with his PH AB's not there, he shouldn't be.

Lane is a more than capable OFer, though not as good as Bruntlett, that will have to earn a spot durring ST.

Conrad is a decent player that can fill rolls if injuries happen and might be a bench player for a few years.

Pence is the only prize in our system now. It would have to be something amazing for him to make this team out of ST though.

MY only thought about the Loretta signing is that Ensberg and Everett have to be worried.

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 4, 2007 9:00 PM CST up 0 recs

The Astros have Orlando

mainly for his pinch-hitting abilities. Loretta has mainly been a starter and will hopefully be used more as a spot starter than a late inning pinch hitter. Orlando had some very key pinch hits last season which were worth his salary... I'm pretty sure the Astros are paying Orlando his salary regardless here he is, and I don't see them paying him to not play.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 5, 2007 6:43 AM CST up 0 recs

Also

I'd feel better about Lane in AAA working on CF then sitting on a bench in the big leagues. I believe he will become a big part of the team after Bidge reaches 3,000. But for now? He be served much better by staying in AAA.

by saylinara on Jan 5, 2007 4:33 PM CST up 0 recs

i think

Palmeiro will be on the team no doubt. Then Lane/Bruntlett will be fighting for a position and then the other guys will probably be brought up and down throughout the year

by TimStros on Jan 4, 2007 8:33 PM CST 0 recs

I completely agree

n/t

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 5, 2007 6:43 AM CST up 0 recs

chiming in

I'm down with it. I've always been partial to Loretta and it'll be nice to see him with the 'Stros again. Nothing wrong with having a lifetime (.299/.363/.402) player to work with. Especially one who's a two-time All Star and has infield versatility. It sure beats counting on Vizcaino as your utility man...

I just wouldn't count on him at third too much. He's only played 1 game there since 2002. That doesn't mean he can't play the hot corner, obviously. But there's a certain lean to the right side of the infield in his recent career.

"I love baseball. You know it doesn't have to mean anything, it's just beautiful to watch." - Woody Allen, Zelig (1983)

by jetking on Jan 4, 2007 9:32 PM CST 0 recs

re: I like it

I'm thinking that Ausmus and Garner had a lot to do with him taking us over the Rangers. Plus did you see the bit where Oswalt talked to McLane?

by megaera on Jan 4, 2007 11:05 PM CST 0 recs

I'm confused

I don't know much about Loretta to be honest, but it seems clear that he's exclusively an infielder. With the signing of Bruntlett, and with Lamb suredly not going anywhere, I thought we had the infield bench players pretty much sorted. Burke is an experiment at CF and supposedly Lane was going to get a chance to win the job in ST, but now he'd have to bump somebody from the 25-man. Not Burke (you'd think). Bruntlett can play in the outfield for sure, and with Palmeiro as really just a pinch hitter, it seems like you need a true 4th OF. Now somebody in that mix won't be on the team. Unless there's another move forthcoming (dumping Palmeiro, maybe moving Everett???), it seems to me that Lane has no real shot, unless Bruntlett's job is in jeapardy. Also it seems that Burke is slated to exclusively play CF unless something happens midseason.

I don't know, I just don't understand how this fills a need. Although now that I think about it, maybe their concerned about Biggio breaking down and a productive 2B was easier and cheaper to find than a productive CF.

And with the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation being two giant question marks, I can't imagine they wouldn't have a 12-man pitching staff, but I think everybody agrees on that.

by littlevisigoth on Jan 5, 2007 9:40 AM CST 0 recs

The PHs

I don't know why the Stros would carry 2 LH PHs. Especially two that don't hit LHP very well. Last year Lamb had a 850+OPS vs RHP, so why would Palmeiro get any of those ABs? Not only are Lamb and Palmeiro only good for RHP PH ABs, but they also can't play the feild.

I love the idea of an Everett/Palmeiro/Lidge trade. They need another OFer.

Damnit!!!!!! I am looking at this team and "I" see what they could have instead of what they do have. They have put all their eggs in the wrong baskets the last year and a half. Everett, Lane, Palmeiro, Ausmus, and Lidge have all been total busts. I have not felt this pessimistic about the Stros for years.

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 11:30 AM CST 0 recs

I'm with you

I don't think Everett and Ausmus (particularly) are TOTAL busts, but it's a live issue as to whether their fine defensive abilities come even close to offsetting their near total lack of offensive abilities.

This deal raises some very interesting questions, I think.

Does this make Ensberg and Everett seriously available for trade? How about Lane?
Will this "light a fire" at training camp and set up some real competition for starting jobs?
Will Loretta be THE 2b guy on the road?
When (If) Biggio gets the milestone hit, will he be relegated to backup?
Will Drayton raise the beer prices even more? (Yes, for sure)

by bwhite2323 on Jan 5, 2007 1:04 PM CST up 0 recs

Considering

I(or anyone) did not see this coming anything is possible. I don't know why you bring in a really quality player like Loretta to be a back-up. I think he could have gotten a starting job somewhere for more money. Why would he come here? I hope Everett is on his way out.

So the question is, Has Lil Timmy told Loretta something we don't know?

To answer questions

Everett, hopefully Ensberg, hopefully not
definately
yes, if he plays like last year
If you can't afford it, don't buy it. That is always what I have gone by. And trust me, I can't afford much.

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 1:59 PM CST up 0 recs

also

If you look at Loretta last year, he would have been the Stros 3rd best player. And even for this year, I bet he projects to be the Stros 4th or 5th best hitter for sure. I would think if he doesn't get 350-500 PAs his talents would really be wasted on any ML team and especially the Astros.

The more I research and think about this trade it is a really good safe and smart move. I wonder if this means 1)Burke will playe CF/2B/SS 2) Everett is either out or used in a much less capacity 3) Ensberg is hurt BAD 4) Biggio will only play as much as he has to 5) The MOVES will keep on coming

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 2:11 PM CST up 0 recs

Bullet points

1. Everett, yes. There's a team out there that'll bite for a light-hitting, defensive-god SS. Especially in a power team who gets screwed with balls up the middle. Perhaps an AL team who negates Everett with the DH.

Ensberg, no. We'd get a bucket of popcorn and an IOU. People pay for the promise of youngsters. People don't pay for the promise of hurting third basemen who had one awe-inspiring season, a few good months, and a bumbling plethora of lies and injuries.

Perhaps for Adam. He's the only one I really see truly affected by this signing by the loss of a starting job. If he lights up though, where does that put Loretta?
Not until Biggio hits 3,000. If Bidge starts this year like last year, expect Loretta to be on the bench or at SS or 3B.

4a. Even Bidge has said if he has a season like last half, he wouldn't mind going to backup after he hits 3,000. I don't think he would have come back, personally, if he wasn't trying to reach 3,000. He and Bags would have rode off into the sunset together.

What I see is this. When he hits 3,000, they bring Lane up from AAA to play CF. Burke moves into 2B. If Lane fails, Loretta is there to play 2B while Burke moves back to CF. I see the Loretta signing as a stopgap for Lane, so if Lane (inevitably) fails, we're not stuck with Biggio fulltime and Burke at center. This is when Burke/Loretta become THE 2B on the road.

4B. Money, money, money, MONEY!

by saylinara on Jan 5, 2007 4:45 PM CST up 0 recs

bah!

Would you have called Lidge a total bust 2 years ago? I couldn't disagree with you more about Everett and Ausmus being total busts, but then again I believe in defense. Lane I agree with you. As for Palmeiro, he's not the greatest avg or on base guy in the leagues but he's a great contact hitter, you don't expect him to strike out that much and with a runner on 2nd or 3rd last year he was very good in the clutch. I do think that Loretta is a better all around player than Everett, Ensberg, Burke, Lane and Bruntlett and he should see 140-150 starts this year, but I don't think he will unless someone gets moved. Ensberg being the only one that I think has a great chance of being a better player than Loretta on both sides of the ball. I'm not pessimistic because I think there are some things that could go awesome this year, I just don't want some players to have a long leash, keep em' close by and if they start to slip replace them. Can you imagine if we had won 5 more games during the regular season in games we let slip away because we couldn't score 2 runs?

by TimStros on Jan 5, 2007 5:47 PM CST up 0 recs

some stuff

No, 04-05 Lidge might be the best RP stint in MLB history, which I have said before. I begged for a trade before 06 and in 06 there were 100 RPs that had a better year. That was a bust year. And to say that Everett and Ausmus did not seriously underperform is incorrect IMO. Palmeiro had his 2nd worst year ever, so contact or not he busted. And Lane; Bust.

All these guys had a BEARISH year so unless a BULL is on the loose, Timmy has made many poor decisions.

There is no reason to be pessimistic and I will watch and enjoy every inning as I always do, but this is the first year in many I see some really bad moves made by the BRASS.

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 11:56 PM CST up 0 recs

another note from the Rocks

For those wishing upon wish that Willy T had not been traded, or thought he was the "dealbreaker" in the trade: http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061220&content_id=1765034& vkey=news_col&fext=.jsp&c_id=col

The article says "Never have the Rockies gotten more for a homegrown talent", then later says "Taveras brings speed but no power, was not the answer the Rockies had in mind in center, so they're looking to deal him".

So Taveras wasn't good for us and he isn't good enough for the Rockies.

I miss Hirsh. (Sadness fills the room)

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 3:26 PM CST 0 recs

More on Loretta

Just heard Loretta on The Charlie Palillo show on ESPN 790. I also heard some of his press confrence.

In the press confrence he sounded very disappointed to have to take a job without a starting role. But unlike I thought, Loretta was not offered a starting job.

On the show he was in a much better mood. He said he can play all the IF positions. Charlie said 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, but Loretta was quick to mention he can play SS. Then Charlie stated he has more time at SS in the IF than 3rd or 1st. Loretta also says he takes pride in having a .300 career avg and was disappointed it fell to .299 durring the end of the year.

Mark said he was not assured any PT deal, but as any player he would like to play regularly. He sounded like any professional ballplayer and spoke kindly of the guys he knew on the team.

What I got: I am now happy with the IF. If anyone slips I feel fine with Loretta sweeping up the mess with great contact ability and pretty good OBP skills.

Jennings 2001 PCL 131.2IP 9.91H/9 0.62HR/9 2.80BB/9 7.52K/9 1.41WHIP Hirsh 2006 PCL 137.1IP 6.16H/9 0.33HR/9 3.34BB/9 7.73K/9 1.06WHIP

by Shamus on Jan 5, 2007 4:42 PM CST 0 recs

Loretta

Loretta in my opinion is the best active player at the hit and run. The majority of his hits will be to right anyway.

Myself being a San Diego fan, I was able to watch Loretta for a few years and was disappointed when he was traded away.

Loretta is someone you will want up to bat in a big situation. True, he has very little power, but he is one of those players who you know does not get cheated up at bat.

While he will not duplicate his numbers from his last stay with the Astros, give him an everyday slot and he will put up numbers for you.

by s4ilorguy on Jan 6, 2007 4:03 PM CST 0 recs

Yep

Loretta doesn't strike out or walk a ton, so you know he's more than likely going to put the ball in play just about every at bat. But with his lack of power and low OBP he shouldn't hit any higher than 6 IMO.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 6, 2007 10:43 PM CST up 0 recs

In the field, etc.

Mark Loretta, from what I can tell, is a very good defensive player. That said, why not play him at SS every day, and, as someone previously mentioned, deal Everett to a more offense-heavy team that might actually desire a defensive stud, whereas we seem to say, "well, y'know, he's good with the glove."

If Loretta's D is solid, Everett becomes utterly expendable in favor of Loretta, who is truly a pro hitter.

When you are as weak a hitter as Everett (and with Ausmus in there, too) it gets harder and harder to stay loyal to his slick glove. And this might be harder to type if Everett were younger and less rock-solid proven.

I say, get ballsy and start Loretta, who was consistent over 700 plate appearances last year.

by alamosweet on Jan 8, 2007 8:13 PM CST 0 recs

As much

as I love Everett,I actually agree with this. Everett is the best defensive short stop in the game, but I don't think Loretta would hurt us more in the field than he would help us at the plate.

by TimStros on Jan 8, 2007 9:25 PM CST up 0 recs

I hate Everett at the plate too, but...

Let's not get carried away. The last time Loretta played SS was 2003, and that was only for 3 games. If you want to trade Everett (and for what?), you have to be comfortable with the idea of having Bruntlett as our everyday SS if Loretta goes down or can't hack it at short.

by Kian on Jan 8, 2007 10:17 PM CST up 0 recs

Valid points

I don't disagree with your sentiment.

However, with Everett on the team, he continues to provide an excuse for terrible hitting at shortstop. If we trade him, even for a minor leaguer (even a younger Adam Everett), then we simply shift him out of the picture, opening things up for improvement/improvisation.

As far as Loretta at short, you're right. But he has only been a one-position guy since 2003, so obviously he's flexible.

These are ideas. I am primarily frustrated with the team concept in which two whole positions are swallowed up by no-hit, all-D players, and I feel it's time to rethink it (although maybe Carlos Lee changes things). Loretta seems to provide that opportunity, at least for a year.

by alamosweet on Jan 9, 2007 11:28 AM CST up 0 recs

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